This weekend, Mixter and I went to Duluth MN to see the hawks and eagles migrate. We made home base at the Super 8 in Superior WI. We explored Superior friday night and then finished off the evening eating at "GRONKS". Which lucky for us was right next to the motel. Saturday morning we went to the Skyway Pkywy in Duluth hoping to see HUGE flocks of raptors blackening the sky. Maybe even having to dodge some on their way through. lol Well what we had was poor wind and the raptors were thousands of feet above us. While the people with Hawks Ridge Observatory were happy and excited to see birds flying so high they were little black specs. I was not.
This is a picture I took of an eagle with my 500mm lense(750mm equivalent).
I think this is a picture of a juvenile coopers hawk right before they released it.
Hiked and hiked. Mixter was quite the trooper being under the weather.
This fox strolled down the road towards us, after we had called it quits.
We spotted these deer on our way back to Superior.
The next morning we woke up a little late, but made it out of the motel by 8AM. We drove to Pattison State Park WI. We saw the Big Manitou and Little Manitou Falls. Then we drove to Amnicon Falls State Park WI and saw those. A lot of minor hiking took place. Then we drove to Upson Falls in Upson WI. After that we had a big detour when the GPS coords for our next destinations were not correct. We ate at the Good Times Saloon in Hurley, were we got directions to a bunch of falls. So we sped off into Michigan avoid the border patrol as we did not have our passports yet.
We had to climb up and down rocks. Jump over water to see some very beautiful sights.
This otter was in the Black River Harbor swimming in the reflections of fall foliage off the opposite hill. There was 4-5 otters that did not want to have me take their picture. So they escaped under the deck Mixter is on.
We could hear them talking and splashing under there.
Then we moseyed on back on back to Mixters place to end a Great weekend. Mixter was quite the trooper this week end. Putting up with me driving in circles and hiking miles on end.
"Atheists Contradict Themselves" by a blogger named Thinkpoint. He is a Pastor for a church in PA. He says a few things that bothered me. So I made some comments. When recently I got an email notification for a new comment and his reply. I was back here again. So instead of answering me on his blog, he decided to email me. I thought this would make an interesting post. I will email Thinkpoint to let him know. This way he can join in or see what we think. "Your militant un or non belief begs quite a number of questions. For example, consider that, ‘Unbelief would be untenable without the moral and metaphysical capital created and banked by the belief it displaced.” This is part of a comment from his blog.
Part of my response. "Unbelief? Are you kidding? That is possibly the dumbest thing stated ever! So lets get this straight. You think if I do not believe in pink vampire trolls that stalk infant bunnies. That my unbelief creates pink vampire trolls that stalk infant bunnies, because it needs something to displace. So now you believe in pink vampire trolls that stalk infant bunnies. That is your logic. Wow. I never realized how much power my unbelief had."
He responded with. "
Response to NoGuyintheSky:
OK, that was cute but cute won’t cut it for well-reasoned discussion. For one who “doesn’t believe” you become quite exercised by suggestions of flawed logic. If you’re analysis is right (and not just cute), guys like Dawkins are crazier than I thought. My beliefs are based on substantiated logic not wish fulfillment. I believe the universe and humans are the product of intelligent design. Any other belief/thinking is just silly and irrational. But one’s belief or unbelief does not in itself validate anything. There must be well-reasoned logic and solid evidence. Really—easter bunnies and such—you can do better than that."
I responded and he comment moderated it. I can not remember what I said. :( So he emailed me with a heading ENOUGH.
His email. "Your inability to deal honestly with history and truth tells me that you have used whatever you desire to convince yourself you are right. This tells me that you really are not as sure as you think you are. If you need evidence, study your hand or eye or ear. If that isn’t enough, consider the darkness of your own heart, your need for forgiveness and inability to transcend the inevitability of death. All humans in all places at all times share these in common."
I responded back.
Thinkpoint, You are a turtle living in a shell. Stick your neck out and learn something of your very own special religion. I spoke the truth in everything I said. Point out where I am wrong. Solid evidence, you and I, oh ya the whole world knows you do not have. You have been lying on your blog. That is not honest. What would it matter to some one who believes in the holy free pass. You do not even know his real name. A pastor and this is in a field that should be your expertise. You see god because you lack knowledge. Hand eyes and ears oh my.
The only thing with history, I can think you are referring to is Hitler being Christian. Make no mistake. He was Christian. Died Christian. He and his mom were buried Christian. The germans in a whole were mostly Christian. Those Christians that ran the camps. Gas chambers. Good Christian ignorant values. Kill Jews. Which is why they were OK with it. Christians forget Jesus was supposed to be a Jew. In case Christians cant understand their own story. FYI - Jesus never died. Gods do not die. Never for a second would he be dead. At best if Jesus was a god, he pulled a parlor trick on his ignorant minions. Since he did not die. Whose sins got covered? heh.
I am not affraid to live or die. I do not cower to fictitious deities. I am an adult. I am mature enough to know I have one life. Just like all creatures. Including you.
Well you chickened out supplying evidence. Maybe you need to ask for forgiveness. Lying that you had it. Deceiving the internet with false hope. Just like you are wrong with all of the above mentioned, you are wrong about atheists and morality.
If you want to man up, and apologize. If you need help with finding information etc. You know where I am.
Well this is his version of evidence.
Hitler a Christian? You obviously do not even know what it means to be a Christian. Do you know what the word means. And the whole name of God thing also betrays you for speaking about things you do not understand. Do you know Hebrew Aramaic and Greek? Have you studied these languages?
You’re like the person who refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon. Nothing will change your mind because you do not want evidence. Once you have concluded that people cannot walk on the moon, nothing will change your mind. Not photographs of astronauts walking on the moon nor interviews with astronauts who were there. Here are eight reason it is hard to be an a-THEIST.
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose.
Yes, atheists enjoy many smaller meanings of life– like friendship and love, pleasure and sorrow, Mozart and Plato. But to be consistent with his atheism, he cannot allow for ultimate meaning. Yet, if the atheist is honest, he will admit to feeling that there is something more to existence -something bigger. Someone said, “The blazing evidence for immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution.” According to Scripture, God has, “set eternity in the hearts of men” (Ecclesiastes 3:11). To maintain his position, the atheist must suppress the feeling that there is more to life than what is temporal. But the atheist encounters many other difficulties.
2. The atheist must suppress the demands of logic.
He is like the man who finds an encyclopedia lying in the woods and refuses to believe it is the product of intelligent design. Everything about the book suggests intelligent cause. But, if he accepted such a possibility, he might be forced to conclude that living creatures composed of millions of DNA-controlled cells (each cell containing the amount of information in an encyclopedia) have an intelligent cause. His controlling bias against God will not allow him to accept this.
3. Yet, ironically, the atheist has to believe in miracles without believing in God.
Why? Well, one law that nature seems to obey is this: whatever begins to exist is caused to exist. The atheist knows that the universe began to exist and since the universe is, according to the atheist, all there is, the very existence of the universe seems to be a colossal violation of the laws of nature (i.e., a miracle). It’s hard to believe in miracles without God.
4. An atheist must also suppress all notions of morality.
He is not able to declare any quality to be morally superior to another. Such admissions require an absolute standard of goodness and duty. Without this, there is no basis for an atheist to declare peace better than war or love better than hate. These are simply alternative choices without moral superiority. The atheist is stuck believing that morality has no claim on you or anyone else.
5. In fact, the atheist must conclude that evil is an illusion.
For there to be evil, there must also be some real, objective standard of right and wrong. But if the physical universe is all there is, there can be no such standard (How could arrangements of matter and energy make judgments about good and evil true?). So, there are no real evils, just violations of human customs or conventions. How hard it would be to think of murderers as merely having bad manners.
6. The atheist must also live with the arrogance of his position.
Although he realizes that he does not possess total knowledge, his assertion that there is no God requires that he pretend such knowledge. Although he has limited experience, he must convince himself that he has total experience so that he can eliminate the possibility of God. It is not easy to hold the arrogant assertions required by atheism in a society that requires blind tolerance of every ideology.
7. The atheist must also deny the validity of historical proof.
If he accepted the standard rules for testing the truth claims of historical documents, he would be forced to accept the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. The account of Jesus’ resurrection is strongly validated by standard rules for judging historical accuracy. The extensive manuscript evidence of eyewitnesses to the resurrection is presented in an unbiased, authentic manner. It is the atheist’s anti-supernatural bias that keeps him from allowing history to prove anything.
8. Finally, the atheist must admit that human beings are not importantly different from other animals.
According to the atheist, we are simply the result of blind chance operating on the primordial ooze, and differing from animals by only a few genes. Yet, the wonders of human achievement and the moral dignity we ascribe to human beings just do not fit with the claim that we are no different than the animals. The realities of human creativity, love, reason, and moral value seem to indicate that humans are creatures uniquely made in the image of God. The atheist’s problem with belief in God is not an absence of evidence but suppression of it. “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools” (Romans 1:20-22).
In Louisville KY there is a pedophile that became a minister. In the KY Jelly state, what better profession for a pedophile is there, than minister? I am speechless. LOL OK maybe not speechless, but damn is this world fucked up. Dude sexually assaults an 11 yr old boy. Christian Minister is a pedophile that is homosexual. That has gotta make old "Jesus" turn over in his imaginary grave in the sky.
If that doesn't push the rapture rating through the roof, I do not know what will. lmao
I have been missing for the last 6 weeks. I have been concentrating on my photography, and every time I try to blog... I draw a blank. I will try and make more appearances.
These are pictures that I probably would not use in a regular post. I took them all during my trip. These first ones were near my mom's home. I had just dropped Mya off, and had an extra couple of hours to kill before Mixter would be ready to leave. I took my time getting to her house. (If interested click on pictures to see them full size.)
Mixter pad with her faithful four legged household tennis ball retriever. Lexy. lol
We got our energy to see the Creation Museum at Frisch's Big Boy.
This dinosaur sculpture is parked outside the museum. I do not think Fred Flintstone Yabba Dabbad Doooo'd off this guy. lol
Here is our group of thinkers. @:-D
Just inside the museum is this child hanging with her pet Velociraptors. I think they are looking for a ball she threw them. She has that smirk because, she used slight of hand to palm the ball. This way the Velo's will be busy searching for a while.
The museum has some nice looking dinosaurs. I also thought during the Dr Terry debacle. Since they do not like how science and artists recreate figures of humans from bones. How exactly did they get their information to do these? Are they stealing from the scientific worldview? lol
This is the saddled up Sarah the Triceratops. It was just for kids. I saw in pictures, the sign that stated that, was away from the little gal. In the afternoon it was next to it. Which explains how some missed the sign.
After we had our fill, Mixter and I went to the Boone County Fair. Here is a cute picture of the first Christian we met there. @:-D
We checked out the animals.
We missed the horse races. Mixter spotted the booth for the creation museum. I wanted nothing to do with it.
I was in detox mode. To much Xtianism for one day. I went and took a few pics of rides.
I came back, and Mixter got me sucked into a dumb argument. (Yes she has apologized. Although I think she would do it again. lol)
Tony was a nice enough guy, but he had been strongly indoctrinated and trained at the museum. He didn't answer questions, but he sure asked a lot. Which is their training in the Ultimate Proof without a Proof. lol I still owe him an email. :)
After Mix had enough for one day, we checked out the Ultimate World Baggo Championships! Yes! World Championship Bean Bag Toss! We kicked back and watched as the intense action played out. The drama was thick in the air, as sweat from the contestants brows began to bead up from the pressure of crucial throws needed.
After we left the Boone county fair, we headed off to see WKRP in Cincinnati. Cincinnati is a beautiful and clean big city. We drove around downtown, and then I pulled over to take this picture of this old bridge.
After I dropped Mixter off at home. I headed north and to the west, towards my moms home. I was avoiding the road construction on my normal route. I do not remember the name of this town that had this happy water tower. lol
My mom said the Hummingbirds were out, and I had not taken a picture of one yet. So for my first attempt. These are ok. Not clear/sharp. When I have more time, I would like to sit there and figure out what settings would be best.
Last ones, is of a just a crane I bugged on the side on the road on my way home.
OK these are the last ones. This butterfly is not from the trip, but it wishes it was. @:-D
Most of you know, I went to the Creation Museum this last Friday. Beside the adventure of traveling at high speeds across the country(Well maybe not high, but we did go 4.5 mph over on the Interstates. Mixter drove in Chicago, her old city of residence. Navigating the traffic, avoiding traffic jams and rush hour. Oh yes we just breezed right through Chicago. lol That could be another post. Mixter is a great driver, and I lived. Thanks Mixter!) OK I was slightly off track.
The main reason for me to go, was to see "The Ultimate Proof of Creation"(Soon to be defined as the Ultimate Maker of Cretinism". Mixter and I went to get in line one hour early and miraculously all the tickets/chips were already given out.(Especially because of how the Creation Museums Super Security Force acted during our visit. I also feel this was orchestrated too.)
I went to the Dragon Hall Book Store and bought a copy of "The Ultimate Proof of Creation resolving the origins debate by Dr. Jason Lisle" Finally a book to resolve this whole origin thingy.
After being harassed in the bookstore by the Creation Museums finest, we exited to see Jason signing books. He didn't look happy.(I am hoping someone asked him a tough question, or fired a shot at his version of logic. during his performance, uh I mean show. Presentation? Heh.) I was still crabby too, so I didn't get his picture. :( Mixter talked me into getting him to sign his book. Again, just a crappy scrawl. No notes, or smile. Really, he should have smiled. He got a heathen to part with some of his cash. No smile means, I will not pull punches. Well maybe a little, he does come intellectually constrained with faith, belief and a stone age religion. And! a loose mix of chemicals, and faulty neurons misfiring in his brain. Or! A chemical imbalance that could cause such delusions. Easily treatable, if he were to seek help from a Professional. And no not the professional kind that Christian males seek out when their wives won't get nasty either. A Psychiatric professional! @:-D
I start to read his book. It is like OMFG! I can not believe this crap. How fucking stupid is he? I will tell you, he is Stupid with a capital "S" I can not stand to read this bullshit, I have to stop every couple of pages. I do not make a habit of writing notes on pages, but I would need blank sheets for every page. It is non stop nonsense, and I did stop 1/3 of the way in. I do not want to have to reread this fucking book more than I must. So I think I will do a little at a time here on my blog. I know, I know. I should just rip the band-aid off, but apparently I do not have a high enough pain threshold to read this all right away.
This book is actually a dual book type. It is a proof for creationism and an instruction manual for Christians on how to deal with atheists, arguments and other non-creation theists. I have been running into a lot of these "World Viewers" online lately. They are difficult to talk to, and/or discuss anything. They generally do not answer questions. They tend to ask another stupid question. Always they are adamant in their belief in the Christian God. Epistemology is probably where most of these hang out.
Ken Ham starts with the forward. Quoting Peter from the KJV. The word of God is true. Infallible, unchanging. So isn't it funny Ken uses the KJV? Why you ask. I find it funny that at the Creation Museum, Ken Ham uses the KJV and Dr Terry Mortenson uses the NASB. Which is it? Who has the word of God? Here they are working to convert the heathens, arm the ignorant with advanced ignorance and they do not even use the same bible. Maybe any version is OK, as long as it suites your purpose. lol
In the intro Jason defines evolution and creation. Evolution is all life forms are related by a biological common descent, having evolved over billions of years from a single cell organism, which itself was from lifeless chemicals.
Creation is just as his good book says. Genesis 1.1 ->, Noah, Flood and kinds. The bible is a historical and scientific document. zzz Wow.
His next ground work to lay is world views. Creation worldview good. Any other(evolution) worldview is inconsistent and bad. Has your head popped yet? Just wait there is more.
Chapter one : Nature of Evidence.
He starts with "For this origins debate, I will be using DNA, fossils and rock layers to support my position." said the evolutionist. "That's odd"said the creationist. "That's exactly what I was going to use to support my position!"
He starts by saying DNA is information. Since it contains the instructions on how to build an organism.
Then he has 2 rules(theorems) for information.
1 - There is no known law of nature, no known process, and no known sequence of events that can cause information to originate by itself in matter. 2 - When its progress along the chain of transmission events is traced backward, every piece of information leads to a mental source, the mind of the sender.
Like this book has a mental that wrote it. OK this is serious. lol Jason has made up 2 theorems. Technically DNA could qualify as information, but DNA is not a book or newspaper. Someone didn't create DNA. DNA is from the splitting of organisms. So each cell has the same exact information as organisms get more complex by evolving. They pass the required DNA on to the cells. While I do not necessarily agree that this is considered information. I will say that all base organisms do split and multiple. Giving the new half its very own special copy of it DNA to frame and hang on the inside of the cell nucleus. To show other aspiring cell half wannabees, looky what I got. Those single cell organisms do that with out thought, it is a process/sequence that just happens. So if DNA is information, then his point #1 is invalid. The war is over, can I go home now? We are genetically related to yeast. Yes that is right. Which is how scientists are able to use yeast for research to help humans. Through DNA research, REAL scientists have been able to determine genetically which organisms we are closely related to conduct research. Check this site out. Click and read the slides.
If DNA is not really information in the standard sense, his argument has lost its teeth.
Also, new creative information is spontaneously created in our minds(Well most, OK some) all the time. This refutes #1 and is OK with #2. Showing that his theorem is false.
Then look at number 2. When information is traced all the way back. There is a mental sender.
Like I said. DNA is not real information. If it was, for his argument it is, DNA can be traced back millions of years. There is evidence in DNA for evolution all the way back to the most base creature/organisms. Again, Jason loses horribly. Jason still thinks the earth is only 6,000 years old. You know, like 500 yrs after man invented the wheel. 1700 yrs after man settled in Mesopotamia. 9,000 yrs after cave men painted some walls in France. So what rescue device is he going to attempt to use? DNA provides a list of ancestry. Showing millions of years of evolution. Carbon dating is inaccurate? Please that idiotic argument works for Christians, but not educated. Does he HONESTLY think scientists have just one dating method? Try more than 20+ to double check dates. If he wants to dispute those tested and proven methods. He needs to supply data to be verified showing they are not valid testing methods. DO NOT SAY IT! SHOW IT!
Well Jason says DNA is information and he says information can not spontaneously come into existence. Therefore it was by the mind of God that put the initial information into the DNA.
This is false, because DNA evidence shows us to be linked to other species along the family tree of species going back millions of years. It is in our DNA, and is observable here. Again showing Gods word as fallible, and therefore he could not be a God. Jason also makes the mistake of assuming God is the only other option. He has not proven God exists. Typical lazy Christian thought, God did it.
Well then he makes false unproven statement that laws of information science confirm creation. On top of it being wrong on many levels. I searched and found no Law of Information Science. He started with a theorem and now he graduates it to a Law. Brilliant. I am employee, "Poof" Now I am CEO! I like the way he thinks. If only life worked that way. lol
He also states that mutations have never been observed to add brand new information. They change the information. Therefore the information as a whole is new. DNA does not add a new sit-com to the DNA just because of a mutation. That is not how it works. It could just change a protein/amino acid in the sequence. Just like when you look up a bible verse. If you select KJV, you get one set of words. Select NASB and you get another. NASB is a mutated version of the ASB from 1901. Either way, his answer is wrong. Again.
He also states if the mutation duplicates part of the DNA sequence, it does not increase the information. Again he is wrong. Just like he repeats himself in his book hundreds of times. He has increased the amount of words I have to read. It is adding new information. Just not different information. He is trying to play with words to make his point, but that is not a valid way to argue. He can not say DNA information must be changed creatively. DNA does not work that way, again showing it is not true information. Therefore no creator is needed for DNA.
Well I have written enough. If I missed something and/or screwed something up. Please show me. People like this play, twist and abuse words to prove there is a God.
The way I left it. He needs to prove all dating methods are inaccurate, show that God did put DNA in cells. Also he needs to prove that if God did place DNA in cells, why would he create DNA to show evolution? Why would God genetically relate us to ALL kinds? He needs to admit #1 is not true. He can state #1, but that does not make it true. His theorems are silly.
Do you think he will use science in this book? What about math? Astrophysics uses math? Right? Did they use math in the Ohio Wesley University? Was he a creation astronomer for his PHD? Are we going to see a proof?
Sorry this was long and BORING! I promise the follow ups will be shorter. I will not need to go over his premises. lol @:-D
While enjoying the (in)hospitality from the Creation Museum's finest in Dragon Hall Book Store. I spotted something by the counter that looked revolting and yet.... I had to buy them. LOL
Next to the cashier, a plague of locusts appeared. LOL OK it was crickets and they were packaged.....FOR CONSUMPTION! There was 3 to 4 flavors. At this point, I do not remember them all. I purchased "Sour Cream & Onion" Crickets. Then I noticed little larva ready to go. I selected BBQ flavor.
Being a big fan of Bizarre food shows. I spotted Scorpion Suckers! I bought 4. Banana, Blueberry, Strawberry and Orange flavors. When I got home, I noticed one was a cricket. :( lol Imagine being disappointed by not getting a Scorpion in your sucker.
I pulled out the trusty God detector, just to make sure no funny stuff was going to happen. The coast was clear, and I am ready!
My partner in crime for this taste testing extravaganza, and only WILLING participant(Mixter said "nuh uh" and "Are you really going to eat them?") Besides myself of course, is Mya my yellow Labrador retriever. She is willing to eat just about anything.
I popped mine in with a lot of apprehension. Chewed it up, and ...did I say the girl at the counter said the crickets taste a little like dirt? My verdict is crickets taste like saw dust. lol They definitely needed more flavoring. The powder was barely noticeable.
I then had Mya sit. With her intently watching my every movement.(She is like that whenever she thinks I have food. I might drop something.) I flipped the cricket into the air, and SNAP.
It was in her mouth, and a millisecond later in was on the floor. Minus legs. lol She looked at it. Sniffed it. Looked at me. I was laughing. She does not eat dead crickets. lol I have personally witnessed her eating live ones. I would have to stop her when she was younger. She ate spiders, flys and bees. I suspect there was not enough sour cream and onion flavor.
Next I popped a Larva in my mouth. Surprisingly, it was good. Crunchy, with a hint of an oil. I did notice a smidgen of BBQ flavoring. BBQ was almost non-existent. They crunch up like tiny slivers of Ruffles Potato Chips.(My favorite brand)
Even though Mya did not like the cricket, she was still a very willing participant. Patiently waiting. I flipped the first one.
SNAP! It bounced off her snout. lol She was still unimpressed. She did not lick, or eat it off floor.
I figured she would like these, since I thought they were OK. So I had her sit again. Larva flying through the air. Mya jumped up to meet the little bugger. Snap, chomp, lick mouth. She liked it. She sat back to catch and finish off the last two. She then snatched up the first one.
With so much success. I thought, lets give the cricket another try. She caught it, and spit it out again. She is a dog. But that girl has standards! lol
Next I busted open a Blueberry Sucker. I selected that one because it was the smallest scorpion, and I did not like how he was positioned in there. I will save the banana one, because I like how it is set in the sucker. I plan on give the Orange Cricket and the Strawberry Scorpion to my brothers kids.
I do not like hard candy. Which includes suckers. Damn these are big.
OK I am trying my best to put up with this sucker. Something I had not anticipated was the scorpion coming out of candy so uneven. First the tail, then the legs and its mesosoma(belly). The little feet dragging on my tongue as I try to melt the little guy out of his coffin. It didn't take long and I was tired of trying to suck the candy gently.
While trying not to damage the body. So at the end, I ran the sucker under some warm water, and that did the trick.
I Finally get him out and its bottoms up. He is very crunchy. He has a hint of dirt/saw dust(You should be asking, exactly how do I know?) lol (I just do. OK?) The company must have soaked him in cinnamon/red hots. Funny.
I would rate the crickets as a 1. Not really worth trying. I would rate the meal worms as a 3.5 and I would have them again. At least for the gross factor in front of other people. I would give the scorpion a 3. Only because it is a scorpion. lol No I would not try a sucker again. Dip him in chocolate and I am in!
This is a picture I took of an eagle with my 500mm lense(750mm equivalent).
I think this is a picture of a juvenile coopers hawk right before they released it.
From here went went to a Gooseberry Falls MN State Park.
Hiked and hiked. Mixter was quite the trooper being under the weather.
This fox strolled down the road towards us, after we had called it quits.
We spotted these deer on our way back to Superior.
We hiked miles seeing 5 waterfalls of the Black River National Scenic Byway.
This otter was in the Black River Harbor swimming in the reflections of fall foliage off the opposite hill. There was 4-5 otters that did not want to have me take their picture. So they escaped under the deck Mixter is on.
We could hear them talking and splashing under there.
Plus doing a 1000+ stairs. @:-D
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